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	<title>Comments on: We are the Resistance!</title>
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	<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/12/30/we-are-the-resistance/</link>
	<description>Some thoughts on the news, religion and life in general</description>
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		<title>By: A Stopped Clock And All That&#160;</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/12/30/we-are-the-resistance/comment-page-1/#comment-2455</link>
		<dc:creator>A Stopped Clock And All That&#160;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=108#comment-2455</guid>
		<description>[...] a civil servant at the Treasury and president of the Civil Service Islamic Society, who wrote some rather interesting articles for Islamic Forum [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a civil servant at the Treasury and president of the Civil Service Islamic Society, who wrote some rather interesting articles for Islamic Forum [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hector</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/12/30/we-are-the-resistance/comment-page-1/#comment-789</link>
		<dc:creator>Hector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 06:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=108#comment-789</guid>
		<description>Just to deal with your first paragraph, Khoirul: 
My original point- as you will see in my first post if you look- was not about theocracy but Azad Ali&#039;s claim that &quot;Hamas...stands for... Freedom.&quot; I pointed out that because Hamas is a theocracy that claim is mistaken. As Hamas (and millions of people around the world) have a problem with the religious and nonreligious beliefs of many more millions of people around the world what does it matter what my opinion is of Hamas&#039;s religious beliefs? I don&#039;t think them true and that even if they were true they should not be the basis for a government, but if people impose them on themselves, that&#039;s up to them. If the Palestinians wish to impose those beliefs and the behaviour inspired by them on themselves I have no objection to their doing so. Just don&#039;t call it freedom. 
If you look you will see that I have said nothing about terrorism or imposing an ideology or &#039;terrorism&#039; or &#039;imposing an ideology&#039;. I have merely dealt eith unwarranted assumptions and unsubstantiated historical claims.  I haven&#039;t decried the zionist entity- there are so many doing so I feel no need to join the chorus; more important, I think what I had to say is relevant whatever your opinion of the zionist entity or the muslim entity or any entity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to deal with your first paragraph, Khoirul:<br />
My original point- as you will see in my first post if you look- was not about theocracy but Azad Ali&#8217;s claim that &#8220;Hamas&#8230;stands for&#8230; Freedom.&#8221; I pointed out that because Hamas is a theocracy that claim is mistaken. As Hamas (and millions of people around the world) have a problem with the religious and nonreligious beliefs of many more millions of people around the world what does it matter what my opinion is of Hamas&#8217;s religious beliefs? I don&#8217;t think them true and that even if they were true they should not be the basis for a government, but if people impose them on themselves, that&#8217;s up to them. If the Palestinians wish to impose those beliefs and the behaviour inspired by them on themselves I have no objection to their doing so. Just don&#8217;t call it freedom.<br />
If you look you will see that I have said nothing about terrorism or imposing an ideology or &#8216;terrorism&#8217; or &#8216;imposing an ideology&#8217;. I have merely dealt eith unwarranted assumptions and unsubstantiated historical claims.  I haven&#8217;t decried the zionist entity- there are so many doing so I feel no need to join the chorus; more important, I think what I had to say is relevant whatever your opinion of the zionist entity or the muslim entity or any entity.</p>
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		<title>By: khoirul</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/12/30/we-are-the-resistance/comment-page-1/#comment-787</link>
		<dc:creator>khoirul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=108#comment-787</guid>
		<description>Hector seems to keep regurgitating the &#039;theocracy&#039; argument; in fact his entire argument seems to revolve around this. It begs to ask the question, is it Hamas (and the resistance) that he has a problem with or is it the religious beliefs of Hamas and millions of people around the world? If it is ,terrorism&#039; and the &#039;imposing of an ideology&#039; that he decries, then he would have equally decried the zionist entity (i&#039;m sure he has, just hasn&#039;t expressed it yet), that came into being through terrorism and that has imposed zionist rule in the territory of historic Palestine by driving out and massacring its people.

Whether this ideology seeks to impose itself world wide or within a limited territory should not matter; because oppression is oppression, subjugation is subjugation. He seems to also judge the entire Hamas organisation based on a piece of paper that was written many many years ago. You should read &#039;Hamas: The Unwritten Chapters&#039; by Azzam Tamimi, it&#039;ll give you some insight into the intricacies of Hamas. If we base our judgement of people or organisations on pieces of paper, then Israel would have been dismissed from the UN, attacked by the US, (under the auspices of the UN), perhaps even militarily, for non-compliance of UN resolutions; and, more personally, I wouldn&#039;t have to go to an interview on Thursday, because my potential employers should already know that I am capable of doing the job by virtue of my impressive CV (or resume, if you&#039;re American). Hamas have proven to be more pragmatic and more open to compromise than you&#039;re willing to acknowledge; despite winning the elections and being given a clear mandate to rule the entire Palestinian territories, they have extended their hands to form a government of national unity and have clearly rejected the &#039;imposition&#039; of their ideology on their people (not because it is a bad ideology, but because the people are not ready for such an ideology, nor have they chosen it - bombshells your argument of imposing Islam on people (Let there be no compulsion in religion) - when you quote, you should quote within context and consider the entirety rather than picking and chosing what suits you; when you use examples from history, you should also try to look at the entirety too, rather than pick and choose what suits you), they have served the Palestinian people before they came into politics through their plethora of social and welfare initiatives and they are attempting to serve the Palestinians within the scope of politics too.

 They have even bent over backwards to attempt to observe a truce with this treacherous zionist entity, going against some of the very people and organisations that you (Hector) would place in the same category (eg, Al Qaeda and even some moderate groups). The only crime that Hamas have committed is to stay steadfast to the path of resistance (acknowledged as legitimate by the UN, by the AU, by the EU, by every legal and international institution) and refuse to compromise on the basic rights of the Palestinian people (why should I compromise my right to return to my own home?); if these are crimes, then I too am a criminal and so too are every institution I have indicated above. The only reason such institutions condemn Hamas (aside from pressure from the zionists and its puppet ,the US) is because of the dodgy affiliation to &#039;terrorism&#039; (which very few institutions are willing to define or engage in debate) and attacks on &#039;civilians&#039;; in fact the only reason Hamas is called a &#039;terrorist&#039; organisation is because of its attacks on &#039;civilians&#039;. But who is a civilian in the zionist entity? When I spend part of my day bombarding Palestinian territories, massacring them, humiliating them; and then I come back home, take off my military gear and meet with my friends in cafes and restaurants (enjoying myself), do I become a civilian? When I train for the military and then am in constant readiness to join the military operations when I&#039;m called up, am I a civilian? Recently, the zionist entity called up 11,000 reservists; who are these reservists? The entire population of the zionist entity acts as a reserve for the zionist occupation force (you&#039;d consider it the Israeli Defence Force) - and this is why this conflict is so unique (where lies the battle ground? who are the combatants and non-combatants? are the beligerents equal?). 

The people that can be considered civilians in the zionist entity are the children, and our hearts cry for the children who have been victims (who have incidentally not been many). The constant appeal of the Palestinian people is that &#039;the entire world have left us defenceless and we have no other means to defend ourselves&#039;; &quot;O Lord! Give us from You a protecting friend, and a defender!&quot; If we ask the Palestinian people to bow down, then this will set such an awful precedent, where the strong will always subjugate the weak. We did not bow down to Hitler, nor to Stalin, nor to Pol Pot, nor to Idi Amin, nor to the imperialists/colonialists despite their power and strength - we cannot let the people of Palestine bow down to the zionist entity (and the last outpost of colonialism); despite the odds!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hector seems to keep regurgitating the &#8216;theocracy&#8217; argument; in fact his entire argument seems to revolve around this. It begs to ask the question, is it Hamas (and the resistance) that he has a problem with or is it the religious beliefs of Hamas and millions of people around the world? If it is ,terrorism&#8217; and the &#8216;imposing of an ideology&#8217; that he decries, then he would have equally decried the zionist entity (i&#8217;m sure he has, just hasn&#8217;t expressed it yet), that came into being through terrorism and that has imposed zionist rule in the territory of historic Palestine by driving out and massacring its people.</p>
<p>Whether this ideology seeks to impose itself world wide or within a limited territory should not matter; because oppression is oppression, subjugation is subjugation. He seems to also judge the entire Hamas organisation based on a piece of paper that was written many many years ago. You should read &#8216;Hamas: The Unwritten Chapters&#8217; by Azzam Tamimi, it&#8217;ll give you some insight into the intricacies of Hamas. If we base our judgement of people or organisations on pieces of paper, then Israel would have been dismissed from the UN, attacked by the US, (under the auspices of the UN), perhaps even militarily, for non-compliance of UN resolutions; and, more personally, I wouldn&#8217;t have to go to an interview on Thursday, because my potential employers should already know that I am capable of doing the job by virtue of my impressive CV (or resume, if you&#8217;re American). Hamas have proven to be more pragmatic and more open to compromise than you&#8217;re willing to acknowledge; despite winning the elections and being given a clear mandate to rule the entire Palestinian territories, they have extended their hands to form a government of national unity and have clearly rejected the &#8216;imposition&#8217; of their ideology on their people (not because it is a bad ideology, but because the people are not ready for such an ideology, nor have they chosen it &#8211; bombshells your argument of imposing Islam on people (Let there be no compulsion in religion) &#8211; when you quote, you should quote within context and consider the entirety rather than picking and chosing what suits you; when you use examples from history, you should also try to look at the entirety too, rather than pick and choose what suits you), they have served the Palestinian people before they came into politics through their plethora of social and welfare initiatives and they are attempting to serve the Palestinians within the scope of politics too.</p>
<p> They have even bent over backwards to attempt to observe a truce with this treacherous zionist entity, going against some of the very people and organisations that you (Hector) would place in the same category (eg, Al Qaeda and even some moderate groups). The only crime that Hamas have committed is to stay steadfast to the path of resistance (acknowledged as legitimate by the UN, by the AU, by the EU, by every legal and international institution) and refuse to compromise on the basic rights of the Palestinian people (why should I compromise my right to return to my own home?); if these are crimes, then I too am a criminal and so too are every institution I have indicated above. The only reason such institutions condemn Hamas (aside from pressure from the zionists and its puppet ,the US) is because of the dodgy affiliation to &#8216;terrorism&#8217; (which very few institutions are willing to define or engage in debate) and attacks on &#8216;civilians&#8217;; in fact the only reason Hamas is called a &#8216;terrorist&#8217; organisation is because of its attacks on &#8216;civilians&#8217;. But who is a civilian in the zionist entity? When I spend part of my day bombarding Palestinian territories, massacring them, humiliating them; and then I come back home, take off my military gear and meet with my friends in cafes and restaurants (enjoying myself), do I become a civilian? When I train for the military and then am in constant readiness to join the military operations when I&#8217;m called up, am I a civilian? Recently, the zionist entity called up 11,000 reservists; who are these reservists? The entire population of the zionist entity acts as a reserve for the zionist occupation force (you&#8217;d consider it the Israeli Defence Force) &#8211; and this is why this conflict is so unique (where lies the battle ground? who are the combatants and non-combatants? are the beligerents equal?). </p>
<p>The people that can be considered civilians in the zionist entity are the children, and our hearts cry for the children who have been victims (who have incidentally not been many). The constant appeal of the Palestinian people is that &#8216;the entire world have left us defenceless and we have no other means to defend ourselves&#8217;; &#8220;O Lord! Give us from You a protecting friend, and a defender!&#8221; If we ask the Palestinian people to bow down, then this will set such an awful precedent, where the strong will always subjugate the weak. We did not bow down to Hitler, nor to Stalin, nor to Pol Pot, nor to Idi Amin, nor to the imperialists/colonialists despite their power and strength &#8211; we cannot let the people of Palestine bow down to the zionist entity (and the last outpost of colonialism); despite the odds!</p>
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		<title>By: Sajid</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/12/30/we-are-the-resistance/comment-page-1/#comment-778</link>
		<dc:creator>Sajid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 02:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=108#comment-778</guid>
		<description>You could for that matter be a young imbecile!

You dont have credible arguments and faltering like a dead leaf on a dead tree....I think Im wasting the fascia on my fingers typing at you....read all the previous posts and understand before you reply</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could for that matter be a young imbecile!</p>
<p>You dont have credible arguments and faltering like a dead leaf on a dead tree&#8230;.I think Im wasting the fascia on my fingers typing at you&#8230;.read all the previous posts and understand before you reply</p>
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		<title>By: Hector</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/12/30/we-are-the-resistance/comment-page-1/#comment-777</link>
		<dc:creator>Hector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=108#comment-777</guid>
		<description>You were at every demonstration all over the world, Sajid? Some speakers in London- it sounds as though you were there- said Israel was illegal, some said its behaviour was barbaric, some supported the action  of Hamas as a resistance movement but not the action of Hamas as a bunch of bigots. You should not assume that all supported all of these things. 
Well, if there is inherent virtue in engaging in a ground offensive without initial preparation, why didn&#039;t Hamas do so rather than shooting off rockets? Why don&#039;t Hamas fighters stay away from civilians rather than hiding among them? Are they offering cut-price tickets to martyrdom by doing so, perhaps?
How is Hector any more of a pseudonym than Sajid? It&#039;s every bit as real a name. The important questios is not whether we are &#039;brave&#039; or brave, but whether our arguments are sound. I notice that you veer away from any discussion of detail to rhetoric and irrelevances whenever you can. I haven&#039;t hid anything; I have merely tried to keep the discussion on topic rather than galloping wildly off in all directions. 
What makes you think I have a religion? What makes you think i need elementary lessons in it? What if- hypothesising that I do have a religion- it is not the sort of religion that needs mastering? What does whether or not I have a religion have to do with the fact that  Hamas quite openly does not offer freedom but a theocracy and wish es to destroy Israel? Hamas themselves are quite honest about what they offer; others are not. 
You make the mistake of assuming that anyone who is not your enemy is in some way your friend. That is as foolish as assuming- you do have a talent for assuming things, I&#039;d agree- that anyone who is not your friend is your enemy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You were at every demonstration all over the world, Sajid? Some speakers in London- it sounds as though you were there- said Israel was illegal, some said its behaviour was barbaric, some supported the action  of Hamas as a resistance movement but not the action of Hamas as a bunch of bigots. You should not assume that all supported all of these things.<br />
Well, if there is inherent virtue in engaging in a ground offensive without initial preparation, why didn&#8217;t Hamas do so rather than shooting off rockets? Why don&#8217;t Hamas fighters stay away from civilians rather than hiding among them? Are they offering cut-price tickets to martyrdom by doing so, perhaps?<br />
How is Hector any more of a pseudonym than Sajid? It&#8217;s every bit as real a name. The important questios is not whether we are &#8216;brave&#8217; or brave, but whether our arguments are sound. I notice that you veer away from any discussion of detail to rhetoric and irrelevances whenever you can. I haven&#8217;t hid anything; I have merely tried to keep the discussion on topic rather than galloping wildly off in all directions.<br />
What makes you think I have a religion? What makes you think i need elementary lessons in it? What if- hypothesising that I do have a religion- it is not the sort of religion that needs mastering? What does whether or not I have a religion have to do with the fact that  Hamas quite openly does not offer freedom but a theocracy and wish es to destroy Israel? Hamas themselves are quite honest about what they offer; others are not.<br />
You make the mistake of assuming that anyone who is not your enemy is in some way your friend. That is as foolish as assuming- you do have a talent for assuming things, I&#8217;d agree- that anyone who is not your friend is your enemy.</p>
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		<title>By: Sajid</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/12/30/we-are-the-resistance/comment-page-1/#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator>Sajid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 00:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=108#comment-774</guid>
		<description>ps

Regarding frienship-I Was never intending to make you my &#039;pal&#039; but you are not my enemy, prima facie. I guess its your loss, you can go back into your closet and into your own world probably without any friends anyway. I guess its tough, how can people become real &#039;friends of israel&#039; after the history of the zionists!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ps</p>
<p>Regarding frienship-I Was never intending to make you my &#8216;pal&#8217; but you are not my enemy, prima facie. I guess its your loss, you can go back into your closet and into your own world probably without any friends anyway. I guess its tough, how can people become real &#8216;friends of israel&#8217; after the history of the zionists!</p>
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