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	<title>Comments on: The folly of engagement</title>
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	<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/07/22/the-folly-of-engagement/</link>
	<description>Some thoughts on the news, religion and life in general</description>
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		<title>By: Quilliam Funding Shocker &#8211; Politics Unlimited &#124; UK politics news</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/07/22/the-folly-of-engagement/comment-page-2/#comment-913</link>
		<dc:creator>Quilliam Funding Shocker &#8211; Politics Unlimited &#124; UK politics news</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] as Islamist interlocutors of government-patronage such as Azad Ali, who makes no effort to hide his loathing of Quilliam. All that has been achieved is ‘credibility’ in the eyes of Ed’s patrons, ie the government [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as Islamist interlocutors of government-patronage such as Azad Ali, who makes no effort to hide his loathing of Quilliam. All that has been achieved is ‘credibility’ in the eyes of Ed’s patrons, ie the government [...]</p>
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		<title>By: merym</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/07/22/the-folly-of-engagement/comment-page-2/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator>merym</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=67#comment-477</guid>
		<description>tell u what. get an undercover azad ali next time ed hussain is invited to a show, and seriously the guy is so blind, he wont know what hit hime. BAM! WHAM!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tell u what. get an undercover azad ali next time ed hussain is invited to a show, and seriously the guy is so blind, he wont know what hit hime. BAM! WHAM!</p>
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		<title>By: Dhulnun</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/07/22/the-folly-of-engagement/comment-page-2/#comment-403</link>
		<dc:creator>Dhulnun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=67#comment-403</guid>
		<description>He would share a platform with you wahabis if you knew how to behave?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He would share a platform with you wahabis if you knew how to behave?!</p>
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		<title>By: Ali Abdullah</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/07/22/the-folly-of-engagement/comment-page-2/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali Abdullah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=67#comment-398</guid>
		<description>Br. Hamza has put this advice on his blog. It&#039;s worth remembering. -

&quot;I believe that it is still necessary to distance myself from doubtful matters. I am not telling Muslims not to attend, I am just trying to protect myself. Public speakers must always ensure that they are God-conscious and must constantly be mindful of the platforms they share and their political implications.

Disassociating Myself from those who wish to Secularise Islam

No one can ever be ‘guilty by association’ and I do not suggest that JIMAS is guilty just by association with some of those speaking at the conference. However it is an Islamic virtue to try and maintain ones integrity by distancing ones self even from doubtful matters. This has been my thinking for myself, and I would urge it onto any others who speak publicly or are active.

In my view, some of the matters I wish to remain distinct from - and I advise all Islamic Organisations and Groups to do so too - are:

1) Those individuals and organisations that, for what ever intention, believe that they should help promote a “reform” or “secularisation” of Islam propagated by several western think tanks. Certainly Islamic opinions are broad and Ikhtilaaf (valid differences of opinion) is a blessing from Allah. But there are some basics that all of us accept, and it is a violation of these that is what we should be fearful of.

2) There are Muslims and organisations that would ally with those who politically and ideologically attack Islam and Muslims amongst politicians and media, and seek to further their agenda through such alliances.

3) Muslims and organisations who have made it their aim to publicly attack fellow Muslims for their Islamic opinions and beliefs, falling into the agenda of those hostile to Islam.

I have given talks, presentations and participated in debates with regards to challenging Secular thoughts and values. I believe it is via positive discourse with the non-Muslim community can a true understanding of each other arise. However, hosting platforms for Muslims who wish to Secularise Islam to promote their ideas unchallenged does call into question the platform. And by consequence for me to speak or give a key address at such a platform was not acceptable.

Rather, I would like that such people must be strongly advised where they have contradicted the basics of Islam as well as being philosophically, intellectual and Islamically unsound.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Br. Hamza has put this advice on his blog. It&#8217;s worth remembering. -</p>
<p>&#8220;I believe that it is still necessary to distance myself from doubtful matters. I am not telling Muslims not to attend, I am just trying to protect myself. Public speakers must always ensure that they are God-conscious and must constantly be mindful of the platforms they share and their political implications.</p>
<p>Disassociating Myself from those who wish to Secularise Islam</p>
<p>No one can ever be ‘guilty by association’ and I do not suggest that JIMAS is guilty just by association with some of those speaking at the conference. However it is an Islamic virtue to try and maintain ones integrity by distancing ones self even from doubtful matters. This has been my thinking for myself, and I would urge it onto any others who speak publicly or are active.</p>
<p>In my view, some of the matters I wish to remain distinct from &#8211; and I advise all Islamic Organisations and Groups to do so too &#8211; are:</p>
<p>1) Those individuals and organisations that, for what ever intention, believe that they should help promote a “reform” or “secularisation” of Islam propagated by several western think tanks. Certainly Islamic opinions are broad and Ikhtilaaf (valid differences of opinion) is a blessing from Allah. But there are some basics that all of us accept, and it is a violation of these that is what we should be fearful of.</p>
<p>2) There are Muslims and organisations that would ally with those who politically and ideologically attack Islam and Muslims amongst politicians and media, and seek to further their agenda through such alliances.</p>
<p>3) Muslims and organisations who have made it their aim to publicly attack fellow Muslims for their Islamic opinions and beliefs, falling into the agenda of those hostile to Islam.</p>
<p>I have given talks, presentations and participated in debates with regards to challenging Secular thoughts and values. I believe it is via positive discourse with the non-Muslim community can a true understanding of each other arise. However, hosting platforms for Muslims who wish to Secularise Islam to promote their ideas unchallenged does call into question the platform. And by consequence for me to speak or give a key address at such a platform was not acceptable.</p>
<p>Rather, I would like that such people must be strongly advised where they have contradicted the basics of Islam as well as being philosophically, intellectual and Islamically unsound.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Abu Talha</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/07/22/the-folly-of-engagement/comment-page-2/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>Abu Talha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=67#comment-389</guid>
		<description>Salaam I thought it would be a good idea to post this letter from Hamza Andreas Tzortzis, who was ment to give a talk at this years Jimas. (by the way I am going IA this year, so dont worry if i bump into Brother Usama Hassan........)

Salaam my dear Brother,

I pray you are well and in the best of possible states.

Ever since I agreed to talk at JIMAS I have been very happy and excited, as I have been given the opportunity to send a positive message to many Muslims. All praises are due to Allah.

To get more publicity for the conference, I put the flyer up on my blog and sent an email to all my email lists informing them of this event and other events.

Unfortunately, as a result I have been bombarded with phone calls and emails trying to explain to me that if I give a talk at JIMAS it would associate me with those in the community who attempt to &#039;secularise&#039; the deen. Furthermore they added that it may effect my dawah work as the forthcoming international platforms that want me to speak may change their minds on my invitation; due to the negative perception that influential and other Muslims have concerning the current affiliations of your organisation.

I however do not completely agree with these messages, but I am in a dilemma because in the work of dawah every Muslim wants to be as effective as possible and prevent any potential fitna and disunity from arising, hence I need some public clarification from yourself that you are not affiliated with certain individuals who attempt to &#039;secularise&#039; Islam.

Your site has been linked on to the &#039;Quilliam Foundation&#039; website and they have mentioned JIMAS on various occasions. Quilliam Foundation are seen by many as an organisation that are trying to secularise Islam.

Please understand my predicament as my intentions are to please Allah as much as possible by giving dawah and attempting to work towards a small milestone for positive change. I have no negative feelings or resentments. I love you and the Muslims, however I need some public clarification as the majority of the Muslims who have contacted me have raised serious concerns.

These messages have not only come from &#039;activists&#039; or what some people may call &#039;Islamists&#039;, they have come from the normal average Muslim.

If you feel it is unnecessary to agree to the above or can not do it for any reasons, I will not be able to attend the JIMAS conference for the sake of Allah in preventing fitna and possible disunity. However, I do sincerely pray you are successful in everything that you do that pleases Allah.

Please reply as soon as you can, and inshAllah we can discuss this further.

I was going to call or arrange a coffee with you, but I do not have your number.

Wasalaam &amp; love,

Your brother Hamza</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Salaam I thought it would be a good idea to post this letter from Hamza Andreas Tzortzis, who was ment to give a talk at this years Jimas. (by the way I am going IA this year, so dont worry if i bump into Brother Usama Hassan&#8230;&#8230;..)</p>
<p>Salaam my dear Brother,</p>
<p>I pray you are well and in the best of possible states.</p>
<p>Ever since I agreed to talk at JIMAS I have been very happy and excited, as I have been given the opportunity to send a positive message to many Muslims. All praises are due to Allah.</p>
<p>To get more publicity for the conference, I put the flyer up on my blog and sent an email to all my email lists informing them of this event and other events.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, as a result I have been bombarded with phone calls and emails trying to explain to me that if I give a talk at JIMAS it would associate me with those in the community who attempt to &#8216;secularise&#8217; the deen. Furthermore they added that it may effect my dawah work as the forthcoming international platforms that want me to speak may change their minds on my invitation; due to the negative perception that influential and other Muslims have concerning the current affiliations of your organisation.</p>
<p>I however do not completely agree with these messages, but I am in a dilemma because in the work of dawah every Muslim wants to be as effective as possible and prevent any potential fitna and disunity from arising, hence I need some public clarification from yourself that you are not affiliated with certain individuals who attempt to &#8216;secularise&#8217; Islam.</p>
<p>Your site has been linked on to the &#8216;Quilliam Foundation&#8217; website and they have mentioned JIMAS on various occasions. Quilliam Foundation are seen by many as an organisation that are trying to secularise Islam.</p>
<p>Please understand my predicament as my intentions are to please Allah as much as possible by giving dawah and attempting to work towards a small milestone for positive change. I have no negative feelings or resentments. I love you and the Muslims, however I need some public clarification as the majority of the Muslims who have contacted me have raised serious concerns.</p>
<p>These messages have not only come from &#8216;activists&#8217; or what some people may call &#8216;Islamists&#8217;, they have come from the normal average Muslim.</p>
<p>If you feel it is unnecessary to agree to the above or can not do it for any reasons, I will not be able to attend the JIMAS conference for the sake of Allah in preventing fitna and possible disunity. However, I do sincerely pray you are successful in everything that you do that pleases Allah.</p>
<p>Please reply as soon as you can, and inshAllah we can discuss this further.</p>
<p>I was going to call or arrange a coffee with you, but I do not have your number.</p>
<p>Wasalaam &amp; love,</p>
<p>Your brother Hamza</p>
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		<title>By: Ayub</title>
		<link>http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/2008/07/22/the-folly-of-engagement/comment-page-2/#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator>Ayub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?p=67#comment-387</guid>
		<description>I hope Dilwar Hussain and all the Ed lovers from ISB have  had a good read of this blog!!! Especially Br Zafars final extract. If there are people like you who are willing to aid the unjust, then there are moderate youth who will be even more viciferous in the defence of our community and Deen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope Dilwar Hussain and all the Ed lovers from ISB have  had a good read of this blog!!! Especially Br Zafars final extract. If there are people like you who are willing to aid the unjust, then there are moderate youth who will be even more viciferous in the defence of our community and Deen.</p>
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